http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/f/1/f/f1f2a8e654330dd0/PEL_ep002_5-6-09.mp3?c_id=1918407&expiration=1492361262&hwt=77bc36accfadda9ea7e919490384e54e

must listen – idea about how we make ourselves significant ; art as way of making ourselves significant